Evolution vs. Creation


Charles_Darwin_photograph_by_Herbert_Rose_Barraud,_1881

It’s important for all of us to think about this debate.  Whether you are a staunch Atheist, or a firm believer in Jesus Christ or anywhere else in between, you must think on this problem and apply logic and reasoning to it if you are to be able to have a coherent input into the discussion.  Personally, I try not to get tied up in arguments over time, since a day is like a 1,000 years to The Lord, and 1,000 years like a day.  In addition to that Dr. Einstein proved that time is one of those relative things, and time has different meaning for somebody on the moon than it does for somebody on planet earth.  So, how does that mean time impacts God?  I cannot answer that question except to say “Differently” (or not at all)  so I choose not to have time play a role in my argument of Creation vs. Evolution.

With that said, I do follow some of the arguments of folks such as Dr. Ron Carlson who puts it so nicely when he says that Evolution as some propose (Carl Sagan and others) is similar to a deck of playing cards dropped from a ladder.  “Oh!” you say, you get it, if Evolution is true, then when I drop those cards from that ladder, then they would quite probably line up by themselves by suit and order from Ace to King all four suits lined up one after another in a row, right?  What?  You don’t think that will happen?   Then we’ll just use the reasoning of the Evolutionists and climb to the top of a 10-story building and drop that deck of cards.  Now, they’ll line up perfectly, right?  No?  You don’t think so?  OK, then let’s drop them off the Empire State Building in New York city.  Still not?  Then let’s charter an airplane to take us up 10,000′ and drop them from there, now they line up – right?  But you see, that is the argument of the Evolutionists, that if you just give enough “time” then everything will line up perfectly and you’ll solve the equation for how life came into being.

To a thinking person, obviously there are flaws in that argument.  Time is not some “magical” variable that one can plug into an equation and have something come from nothing.  Life, by its very essence violates the Second Law of Thermodynamics:  Entropy.  Entropy is the principle that ordered systems tend towards dis-order.  In other words, things break down, decay is obvious over time.  It is a violation of Entropy to say that I can take my bicycle and bury it in my backyard for 1,000,000 years and expect to dig up a Cadillac; it just ain’t gonna happen!

So, while I’ve jumped ahead in this discussion a little bit, I just wanted to show how important it is to think on these problems.  I spent nearly 10 years in College, actually at 4 different institutions of higher learning.  I am thankful that at least those institutions taught me to think.  I didn’t learn much else really, not much practical that I use on the job every day, except how to be an Engineer.  I’m more inclined to believe though that being an Engineer is something you are either born with or learn at a very early age.  But that’s another discussion isn’t it?

What I really wanted to do in this article was to set out the tenets, the propositions of Evolution and either knock them down one by one, or acknowledge which of those principles there are that Christians (especially The Bible) can agree with.  I started looking at this recently and found that “Evolution” in the modern sense is not one theory, but nearly a dozen.  There are 11 in the most recent article I came across.  Let us list those quickly so we can refer to them:

1. Transmutationism – that species change form to become other species; the alternative view is Statism

2. Common descent – that similar species have common ancestors; the alternative is a view I can only call Parallel descent (a view held by Lamarck)

3. Struggle for existence – that more are born than can survive; the alternate view is sometimes called Commensualism

4. Natural selection – that the relatively better adapted have more offspring, sometimes called Malthusianism; the alternate has no name.

5. Sexual selection – that the more “attractive” organisms of sexual species mate more (and have more offspring), causing unfit traits to spread; again there is no alternate, just a denial that it happens

6. Biogeographic distribution – that species occur close by related species, explaining the distributions of various genera; this view, first published by Wallace, is in opposition to the older “single centre of creation” notion.

7. Heredity

a. Darwin’s own theory was called “pangenesis” and is no longer accepted (it was a form of what we now call “neo-Lamarckism“, or the inheritance of aquired characters),

b. Weismannism – the more modern view that genes don’t record information about the life of organisms.

8. Random mutation – the notion that changes in genes aren’t directed towards “better” alternatives; in other words, that mutations are blind to the needs imposed by the ecology in which organisms find themselves

9. Genetic drift/neutralism – the view that some changes in genes are due to chance or the so-called “sampling error” of small populations of organisms. Molecular neutralism is the view that the very structure of genes changes in purely random ways.

10. Functionalism – the view that features of organisms are neither due to or are constrained by the shapes (morphology) of their lineage, but are due to their functional, or adaptive, benefits.

11. Gradualism – the view that changes do not occur all at once, and that there are intermediate steps from an earlier stage to the next.

As said, I have borrowed that list from the article I found because it seems to be comprehensive and inclusive of all the ideas current in Evolutionary thought.  So, let’s get the parts out of the way quickly that most of us Christians agree with.  I know pretty much for sure that we all agree with “Struggle for Existence” and “Survival of the Fittest” (3 & 4 above).  Most of us have personally observed these, either in movies, or in the laboratory, or in the natural world close up.  At the same time, our techniques in Animal Husbandry, and use of “selection” prove those as well, and in some sense that proves #5 (Sexual Selection) as true also.  I was struck by the fact that in the book of Genesis (Chp. 30) in the Bible, Jacob uses a sort of “selection” in his Husbandry techniques to insure that the speckled and spotted sheep mate while the non-speckled and non-spotted sheep do not get to mate, thus insuring that the “stronger” animals have more young.  The text never says whether the speckled and spotted are stronger, but since they are to become Jacob’s payment for services, you can say they had more “value” if you like.

Darwin supposedly proved Biogeographic distribution with his published results on a set of finches that lived in a tree.  One species was “adapted” to live in the lower branches of the tree, another in the middle part of the tree, and another species lived in the upper part of the tree.  In our country we have numerous instances of that happening as well.  One of the most striking I can think of is in another species of birds:  The Magpies.  Specifically, there is a species known as the “Yellow Billed Magpie” that only inhabits the Central Valley in California, and the surrounding foothills, where another species the “Black Billed Magpie” is found everywhere else.  We count those as a separate species, when in reality, they could likely interbreed with one another, and the manifestation of a yellow bill on one set of birds that occupies a specific geographic region has more to do with variation and simple inheritance of recessive/dominant characteristics than it does to what Darwin’s followers term “Speciation.”

Another type of variation, selection and demonstration of basic inheritance is demonstrated in the domestic dog.  As long as man has had domesticated animals there have been dogs faithfully plodding along with us.  They have captured our hearts and have been given the affectionate name “Man’s best friend.”  However, 1,000 years ago all dogs had a general appearance of wolf-hounds.  There were no breeds such as the St. Bernard or the Chihuahua.  Today we have a myriad of breeds that all can trace their ancestry back to some common forms, and they have been selectively bred for certain characteristics that make them the breeds we know and love today.  This selective activity is similarly found in horses, cows and sheep in addition to other domestic farm animals that we all are acquainted with.

Again, these types of “selection” activity, whether natural and caused by some sort of environmental boundary or other pressure, these processes agree with the #4, and probably #5 theories (Natural Selection, Sexual Selection), but they do not in any way shape or form prove the #1 and #2 theories (Transmutationism, and Common Descent) and they probably do nothing to support theory #6 (Biogeographic Distribution).  Speciation, or the formation of new species from old ones, cannot be explained in terms of geographic boundaries, nor are any other environmental pressures likely to cause a species to give rise to a new species.  That’s simple variation, not speciation.  In order to prove Either Transmutation or Common Descent  you would be required to show that there are what Darwin referred to as “Transitionary” fossils or that one species can indeed become an entirely different species.

Now we’ve moved from the realm of living species to (mainly) discussing species that have become extinct, or are no longer evident as living creatures on the earth.  There are numerous examples in the fossil record of species that once roamed the planet but are no longer living species.  We are all familiar with Dinosaurs, and many of us know about Trilobytes and another Mollusk type animal known as Ammonites.  The interesting thing is that what Mr. Darwin said was that if his theories were true, and speciation was a process that moved forward over time, then there should be evidenced in the fossil record quite a number of “inter-species” or “transitionary” fossils.  These fossils would have to appear to be somewhere in between one species and another.

Likewise, since that is practically the only way you can possibly prove that Transmutationalism (theory #1 above) as well as Common Descent (theory #2 above) and in fact Gradualism (theory #11 above), it becomes obvious that since all we find in fossils are distinct species that these parts of Evolutionary thought are either not good theories (at best) or they are bad theories and cannot be proved with anything known in science.  Mr. Darwin himself said that if this part of the theory were true that there should in fact be more transitionary fossils in the geologic records than there are distinct species fossils!  There are instances of supposed “transition” fossils, but most have been shown to be fakes, or they cannot conclusively be proved to be what they are supposed to be (e.g., Dr. Leaky’s “early man” fossils), and they are so few in number that they do not prove Mr. Darwin’s theories.

So far, I think we can say that as Christians most of us will agree with theories #3, #4, and #5.  We can also say that Christians, at least The Bible (what Evangelicals refer to as “The Revealed Word of God”) categorically disagrees with #1 and #2, #6 and also #11 above.  The Bible disagrees with those parts of the Evolutionary theories because in the book of Genesis (Chapter 1) it tells us that “God … created them according to their kinds.”  The Bible teaches that in both reference to plants and animals.  Creation teaching is directly opposed to “Convergent” evolutionary teaching.  Man did not descend from monkeys, nor did we all come from slime.  Likewise, The Bible and most thinking people would disagree with the notion that geographic differences (or other environmental pressures) can lead to formation of new species (Biogeographic Distribution).

Now, that leaves theories #7 (Heredity), #8 (Random Mutation), #9 (Genetic Drift), and #10 (Functionalism) to cover in the last part of this discussion.  As a reasonable thinking person, again, one who has spent many years in college studying the evidence, I think I can safely say that Heredity does exist.  In fact, we know now from study of Mendelian genetics that the genetic code exists and encodes all proteins and organs and structures in a life form (whether plant or animal).  That genetic code has been shown to be so complex, however, that one wonders how anyone could ever form the opinion that genetic information could spontaneously arise in some sort of “Primordial Soup” as they used to teach us in those same college classes I took?  That’s a quite silly notion, and denies the very idea of divine creation.  But, that seems to be the point – those who choose to put their faith in spontaneous biogenesis are making a spiritual decision – to deny God!

That’s a very profound statement, and it implies that at this point in the Evolutionary discussion, we are dividing those who believe all these theories of Evolution from those who do not believe all of them on the basis of a Religion.  Let’s go back one step and deal with the rest of the theories and decide whether those have any impact on what we’ve just discovered.  Mutation is indeed random, as we can all attest, Cancer can be caused by random mutation, but we’re not sure anything good ever comes (or has come) from random mutation.  Genetic engineering on food stuffs can take advantage of mutations to increase food yields and so on, but again, there is a tremendous amount of discussion as to whether this is a true benefit to humans, or whether people are messing with things they should not be meddling with.  But, it should be noted that mutations are demonstrable, and are real, they do exist.

Genetic Drift as a theory proposes that small populations can “drift” away from the norm.  This theory would account for geographic distribution of species leading to characteristic differences in those populations over time (such as the finches in Darwin’s research detailed above, and the Yellow Billed Magpies in California also discussed above).  Those characteristic differences are in turn reflected in the genetic variation of those populations, but again, this in no way describes how one species becomes another, nor does it account for any “transitionary” fossils in the geologic record (as far as we can tell).

The last theory to deal with is Functionalism (#10).  Again, this is demonstrated again and again in science, especially in Animal Husbandry where animals are selectively bred for their perceived beneficial characteristics rather than allowing random breeding patterns.  Beneficial characteristics have many known examples:  Dairy cows bred for milk production; beef cows bred for amount and / or quality of meat; sheep bred for wool production; hogs bred for speed at which the piglets grow and mature and can be taken to market, etc…  As noted earlier, there is an example of selective breeding (Genesis 30) in The Bible where Jacob breeds his sheep for characteristics that would be economically beneficial to him.  I would argue that this also is an example of Functionalism since economic benefit is a functional characteristic.

So now we as Christians find that The Bible and we can agree with many of these principles that are contained in the modern theories of Evolution.  The place where we draw the lines are based entirely around the notion that one species becomes another (over time) and that life somehow spontaneously arose from lifelessness.  We come back now to the discussion of time, and its impact on life and other processes.  The other processes might be noted as geologic processes, climate, and so on.  Many factors on this earth have led to the dominance or extinction of various species.  It is a fact that Dinosaurs roamed this planet at one point.  The question that arises for a Biblical Scholar is whether Dinosaurs and man were here at the same time?  The Bible says that we were here at the same time (Job 40) so I believe that in fact Dinosaurs were here when man was created.

According to the evidence I have seen and read about, Dinosaurs were wiped out by a cataclysmic event.  Many other species perished around the same time, not all are noted as having been around at the same time.  But, when you examine the evidence with clear eyes, I think you too can be satisfied that Dinosaurs were wiped out by the Great Flood of The Bible.  Once you hear about Dinosaur nests found whole and intact and on the surface in the Gobi Desert in China (with fossilized eggs and all!), and then you journey to places where dinosaur bones are found such as Dinosaur National Monument in Colorado, USA, you can tell that many of these creatures were wiped out suddenly and quickly, and their carcasses were deposited into mud-filled areas such that fossilization occurred rapidly following their demise.

So, the big question arises, if we (and The Bible) can agree with some of the theories of Evolution, then how is it that Humanists and those who think they want to omit God from any scientific reality cannot agree with Creation or even recognize it as a valid theory?  As I said before, The Bible states that God created this universe and all that is in it.  In other words, all that we can see, touch, taste, and smell, anything perceptible was created by our God.  An interesting corollary to my discussion on time above is that God also created time!  If you think about it, if God exists somehow outside of time, and as we know, time is relative to physical realities, then He had to have created it and applied time as a mechanical force in this universe!  That’s a pretty awesome statement.

I should note that The Bible states that God “Created the heavens and the earth in 6 days” (Genesis 1) and many who believe The Bible believe that to be a literal 6 days.  I have stated before, and will do so again, that the concept of time is not relevant to God, only to us.  As I said above, I have no desire to try to understand the implications of all of that.  In fact, when I became a Christian at the age of 34, I was already a fully mature adult, having many years of college, and possessing many questions.  But, the day I became a Christian, I stopped worrying about all those questions and simply put my faith and trust in God and His Word (The Bible).  I was satisfied that someday (when I get to Heaven) I will know the answers to all those questions (1 Corinthians 13).  There’s no need to make a big deal about those issues down here on this earth, the definition of “Day” in the Bible is not a crucial question for salvation, and to me it’s not really worth arguing over.

On the other hand, we know our views on Creation and the universe set us up in opposition to modern Cosmologists who refuse to admit a “Divine Principle” in the universe.  Folks like Stephen Hawking and Richard Dawkins choose to believe that they can write mathematical formulas for those first few picoseconds of the universe that will somehow make something come from nothing!  That’s right – they think they can write a mathematical formula that has zero equal to one (0 = 1)!  I learned in Kindergarten (or pretty close to that) that you cannot do that.  So what am I saying?  Again, I am saying that the group of Scientists and Humanists who cling to their notions that all there is somehow spontaneously came into being are basing their whole “Religion” on the idea that they can somehow magically make something appear from nothing.

When it all came down to it for me, believing in God was not so difficult at that point.  Personally, I have many other reasons to believe in a personal, loving God, one who knows me and cares about me, and who walks with me on a daily basis, but again, that’s a different discussion.

Let me conclude this article by stating what we’ve learned, and perhaps what you have gained.  First and foremost, God set up the universe the way it is.  He created all there is, and He made it such that species of animals and plants can grow and adapt and change gradually over time.  This, however, does not make them new species.  The world is not a static place, and building in mechanisms into the reproductive processes that allow for small gradual changes within a species is a brilliant adaptive mechanism that insures survival of the fittest organisms in an (dynamic) environment.  As humans, our own ability to study and to learn about our environment, to document our findings and to build adaptations for ourselves and our dependents is a part of that same mechanism that God originally designed into this place.  Remember, Adam’s first job was to “name the animals.”  That was a way of categorizing the things around him in his environment, to study and to learn!  I would propose that is one of our primary purposes on this earth:  To learn and to study!

But, an even higher purpose than that is to Love God and worship Him, because He gave us all that we have.  The Bible has no disagreement with good science, but it does call “Fools” those who say there is no God (Psalm 14:1, 53:1, Romans 1:21-23).  I call them fools too, because at the root of their so-called science, they are trying to prove something that violates the most basic mathematical and scientific principle:  That you cannot get something from nothing.

I pray that you, the reader of this article may benefit from what I’ve said here.  I pray further that you may be blessed this day and that you may Know the living God Jesus Christ in all His glory.  He is alive, and He wants to know you!  Please feel free to make comments on this article, this is a discussion and I invite you to participate.

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7 thoughts on “Evolution vs. Creation

  1. Pingback: Dragon Breath « Personal Blog of Scott deBeaubien

  2. 1. the bible is not a science book. It speaks of 900 year old people, magical hair, talking donkeys, failed propheces, and most importantly, gets the order of creation wrong. Especially noting there are 2 separate accounts in which one verse states that the plants were put on earth before the sun was even in the sky! you know… that whole photosynthesis thing that makes plants live…

    ” That genetic code has been shown to be so complex, however, that one wonders how anyone could ever form the opinion that genetic information could spontaneously arise in some sort of “Primordial Soup” as they used to teach us in those same college classes I took? That’s a quite silly notion, and denies the very idea of divine creation. But, that seems to be the point – those who choose to put their faith in spontaneous biogenesis are making a spiritual decision – to deny God!”

    2. This view that the bible represents the entirety of human beliefs and that somehow there is a consensus across humanity as to there being 1 god is absurd. Not to mention a bit ignorant. Unless you forgot there’s a whole host of polytheistic and non-theistic cultures that dot the human landscape. Confirmation bias much?

    3. Equating the bible as some kind of account actual and/or natural history, considering a) the stories, If world were the size of beach ball, only describe narratives in an arid region about the size of a dime in respects, and b) knowing the age of the earth is hilarious. Why doesn’t Jesus teach about germ theory and sanitary practices which would’ve save BILLIONS from otherwise preventable horrific and painful deaths? To assert that denying the scientific assertions made by anonymous scribes well over 2000 years ago with no ability to understand other geographically separate human cultures, is somehow “denying god,” well…. is more or less insanity at its finest manifestation.

    • I don’t ever claim to “Understand” everything in the Bible. What I tell folks is the moment I became a believer in Jesus Christ, who He is (He is God), that I lost any objection to anything in the Bible. I knew, even at that moment, that I would spend the rest of my life trying to understand it! I’ve heard all your arguments before. They are the “Standard” so-called atheist objections to God and the Bible these days. They are widely published and easily downloaded from any atheist web site. I probably believed many of those things or had heard them before I became a believer also.

      The Bible is a unique “Book” actually made up of 66 books written by 40 authors over a period of at least 1,500 years or possibly more. It never claims to be the “Entirety” of human beliefs, but it does claim to have the truth, and in fact, to be the truth. What you need to ask at that point, is whether it is possible that God could have actually communicated His knowledge and will and so on through certain people who then wrote it down for us? But I would again, caution you to first investigate, as I did, the possibility that Jesus is actually God, come to earth in the form of a man. Is that possible? Did it really happen? All these other things, all these ideas, all the evidence hinges on whether or not Jesus is who He said He is.

      C.S. Lewis investigated these things (he was an atheist as a young man as well) and decided that there were only 3 possibilities: Either Jesus is a liar, or he is a lunatic, or he is God. There are no other possibilities. Jesus did not leave the idea of his being “Just a man” open for discussion, in fact, since He claimed to be God, you cannot then simply dismiss him as a man, a Prophet or teacher or whatever. One must decide. Josh McDowell, another famous atheist who set out to disprove Christianity, also came to the conclusion that there is ample evidence in the Bible alone to prove that Jesus is who He said He is. That case is spelled out in his famous book: _Evidence That Demands a Verdict_.

      But I don’t think I can convert anyone with words or logic. What works is prayer. “For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.” 2 Corinthians 10:4. It’s very difficult for a non-believer to have faith, in fact impossible. Only God can call you and cause you to be “Born again” such that you can then have faith and in fact understand what it is I’m telling you. I pray that He would do so now. Only then will your eyes be opened to see, and your ears to hear the gospel of Jesus Christ.

      Then you’ll understand that the Bible spells out a relationship with a creator God and His Son, unlike any other “Religion” out there. In fact, Christianity is so different, we don’t refer to it as a religion. The key difference is the fact that in God’s eyes, we stand condemned, from the time of birth, even from before that. We are born sinful creatures who are His enemies. Our world tells us we are “Evolving” and somehow getting better. What I tell folks all the time is that they believed that at the end of the 19th Century. The end of the Victorian Age was referred to as “The Golden Age” when technology was going to solve all of man’s problems and we were all going to live in some earthly paradise. That dream was shattered by two events: 1. The sinking of the Titanic, and 2. The start of WWI. Prior to that men had posited that war was too expensive, too costly and that men would surely never go to war again.

      The facts are that more people were killed in wars in the 20th Century than in all of history prior to that – combined. Also, more people were killed in Genocides in the 20th Century than in all of history prior to that – combined. More Christians were martyred for their faith in the 20th Century than in all of the 1900 years prior to that combined. But the kicker, and this is key, is that more babies were killed in their mother’s wombs in the 20th Century by abortion than all those other numbers – COMBINED!

      We are NOT getting better. We are, in fact, getting worse. Only the Bible predicted all this. Only the Bible has diagnosed man’s condition accurately. Only the Bible proposes a solution, not a man-made solution, but one offered by a loving and gracious God who still seeks to redeem humans from their fallen state. Only Christ has the true answer. That’s why it says in the Gospel of John: “Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” (John 14:6). The “Exclusive” claims of Christianity are not because men haven’t tried to get to God on their own. Countless billions have tried and failed, because in our fallen state we can never be “Good enough” to make it to God on our own! Jesus is literally THE way to God, since only He could pay the price that we could not. In dying on a cross at Calvary, Jesus became sin for us and was cursed. He took the penalty for us. In doing so, He made it so we could get to Heaven – through His righteousness, not ours.

      But, as in all things, there is a cost. You must turn from your sin. You must “Repent” and follow Him. It’s not some kind of intellectual thing that you agree with Him, it’s something that must be believed and taken in faith that it really happened, and that we have a God who cares enough about us that He came, Himself, and died in our place. He didn’t stay dead. The resurrection is the single most important event in all of history, from our standpoint. Without that “Proof” that Jesus is who He said He is, nothing else matters.

      So you must ask yourself, is it true? Could a dead carpenter in the Ancient Near East really have been God’s Son? Did God care that much about man that He gave us an offer of salvation in the form of a man, a man who preached against all the “Religious” activities of men, who taught us to “Love one another” and to be kind and to give what we have to take care of the poor and the sick? Could it really be that simple?

  3. Lol. firstly, I just found that you said the dinosaurs were wiped out by the biblical flood, which proves 1, you’re insane, and 2, you actually don’t know where science is on that event, 3. how that specific event, which was an asteroid crashing in the yucatan peninsula 65-70m years ago, left the door open for tetrapods (4 appendages) and early ground dwelling mammals to proliferate w/o major predation from large carnivores. Wow. just wow. The body of knowledge you’re missing is just ooooooof. And, my observations have nothing to do with atheism more so as just basic literary observations.

    If your holy book was perfect, then it wouldn’t require translation, interpretation, evangelicism, or apologetics.

    Abrahamic theology is flawed from the get go, and a theology that requires you to close out all other spiritual knowledge coming from sources other than the bible and requires prayer to and through the name of just one human being in all of 6 million years of hominid evolution, is frankly hilarious. Not to mention, nowhere nature is it evident that you must worship. Look at all the perfectly happy non-theistic adherents like those Buddhism and such.

    You said above, that the transitional fossils are mostly fake, but what you don’t know is that we have a whole treasure trove of fossils, from the first amphibian (tiktaalik: look it up dude) who is important COMMON ANCESTRY (not animal husbandry) that is the first species that has functional wrist bones immediately after the lineage of animals that leads to the first tetra pods that share ancestral physiology. You should also look into the evolution of whales (that means look it up) since we knew that they started in the sea, became shallow water animals like hippos are and then migrated back to the oceans to what they are now. we have fossil evidence of that. You have ask yourself, why is it whales and porpoises are mammals and where and WHEN those splits in evolution happened from the land mammals. Because there are real answers that we know and religious people think is somehow “the devils work.”

    This below tree is literally backed entirely by fossil specimens noting the locations in which they were found and the date ranges they lived. At the bottom the tree, and what is not shown, is the last common ancestor that had a tail and traveled on all fours like primates. I suggest looking at this and taking interest because it’s all “the lord’s work” if you so believe there is one.

    http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-family-tree

    You as far as your faith in jesus, whatever, that’s cool. Jesus is alright, but that whole original sin thing is garbage since we know we didn’t inbreed from a rib woman who talked to a snake and gave birth to two sons who had no one to procreate with per the bible.

    • Here’s something interesting. Fossils are dated by the geologic strata in which they are found. And geologic strata are dated based on the fossils found in them. Think about it. So-called “Carbon dating” is only relatively accurate, and then only to a few thousand years for many reasons.

      http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c007.html

      Second, this earth has been shaped by “Catastrophic” events much more than most who call themselves scientists would admit. I’ve been to Mt. St. Helens in Washington, in fact I’ve climbed it several times. I drove around the entire mountain with my kids too, I’ve seen the massive evidence that things happened very quickly. In fact, so quickly that enough material was moved by the eruption (in 24 hours), including lava, the Lahar flows, and the melting glaciers to fill, yes that’s correct, FILL the Grand Canyon.

      I’ve been to the Grand Canyon as well. It’s the only place where you can actually see the “Geologic Column”, or at least where you can see more of it than anywhere else. Layer after layer of fossil bearing sedimentary rock exposed for all to see. Except, there’s a catch: It’s upside down according to how it should “Supposedly” be laid down. You can’t tell me that hundreds and hundreds of miles of sedimentary rock have all been turned upside down, and miles deep?

      Third, the Grand Canyon has walls that are over 8,000′ elevation in the South and 9,000′ in the North. The river below is at an elevation of around 2,000′ – 2,500′. When the Colorado River flows out of Colorado, it’s actually below 3,500′. So, tell me, how did that Canyon get created anyhow? Have you ever seen Monument Valley? There are these giant buttes that all have names and such. You can see the various water levels on them, marking where the water once was. And, just like at the Grand Canyon, you can find sea shell fossils all over the place on those buttes.

      Then there’s the one example I quoted in my Evolution vs. Creation article, the “Millions of years old Dinosaur fossils and nests found lying around on the ground with eggs still in them”. You don’t seriously believe those sat around that long just waiting to be discovered do you? How about Dr. Leaky’s discovery, he stumbled over a bit of bone sticking out of the ground and he proudly proclaimed “I found Ancient Man!” Don’t you think it much more likely that he found a Chimpanzee bone fragment that had been eaten last year by a Leopard? I do. I don’t care what your dating mechanisms say at that point.

      And your “Tree of life” or whatever you want to call it, that was taught to us in Zoology and so forth from the time I was a small lad. The problem is there are certain Phyla in the Kingdom that just “Don’t fit” anywhere else (so like where did they come from). Then, how about answering the question of where an eye came from? If an eye will only function with all its parts present, then how on earth did mutation and adaptation account for the evolution of the eye? Cannot possibly do it, no matter how you argue that one.

      I could go on and on and on. There are so many problems with Evolution it’s pathetic when anyone tries to defend it actually. But I give you top marks for trying. Think about this for a moment. In the gospels, Jesus turned water into wine. If you believe for an instant that actually happened, then think about this: Wine is made from grapes that must be grown. Those grapes must then be harvested, crushed to extract the juice, then the juice processed, bottled and aged properly in order to become wine. That process takes (usually) years. Jesus did it in an instant. If he can take ordinary water and make it look like an agricultural product that is years in the making, don’t you think he could do all kinds of wonderful things while creating the earth?

      Asteroids and comets and “Zillions” of years don’t really do anything to change the fact that you cannot get something from nothing, nor can you really ever change one species into another. If you could, then we’d see something going on today. If evolution were true, then speciation should be happening still, and we should see some evidence that it’s occurring somewhere. If the “Cambrian Explosion” (CE) happened at some point, then there was a rapid set of developments afterward. Those developments should still be happening though, since we still have a favorable environment for life. So, let’s say there have been 20M species of plants and animals since the CE. That was roughly (roughly!) 550M years ago. 550 / 20 = 22.5. So, about every 22.5 years we should be seeing a new species. Hmmm…. AFAIK, nobody has ever seen this happen.

      Thus, the examples I used, Magpies are still Magpies, and Darwin’s Finches have been shown now to have variance in exactly one gene (for their beak) and thus, they are all the same species too. It’s not Rocket Science to debunk Evolution you know. It’s quite simple really. But you go on, believe all the house of cards that have been built up around it. Believe it all you want. I, personally, came to the conclusion that believing in Jesus Christ, the Son of God, made much more sense. Once I believed in Him, the rest of the Bible became clear to me. I don’t understand it all, I can believe it though and have faith that one day I will know it completely.

      • Lol. You are really clueless. 6th graders know how the grand canyon was formed. Erosion. It’s why the colorado river cuts through every piece of it. Wow, Geology. Maybe you’ve heard of plate tectonics and continental drift. You know, the forces that created the mountains, are part of the engine that drives volcanism, and cause earthquakes. You really should take a class in basic sciences before you speak to topics you don’t understand. This is remedial level science.

        Please posit how the geologic column is upside down since new sediments and newer species fossils are always, always, always on the top/younger layers, as they should be, and older species and sediments are on the bottom exactly as they should be. You never see a hominid fossil in a layer with Devonian era fossils. You never see rabbit bones in layers with pterodactyl fossils. You never see bird fossils in layers with any other layer other than everything after the dinosaurs. This is the reason Young earth creationism is creating more atheists and agnostics that converting those to christianity. Science denial.

        Unless you’ve been hiding in a cave, we’ve genetically sequenced dna and understand evolution down to a genetic level, so while you want to argue about zoology, you can look up the phylogenetic relationship of practically every animal to another based on genetics and not fossils. I’m assuming you live in a cave now actually.

        the fact is you something from nothing assertion applies to a complex conscious thinking deity. It is the basis of the Kalam Cosmological argument. Everything that exists has to have a cause. If god exists, he/she/it/they has to firstly become complex, and secondly become conscious, and thirdly create. so, you assertion that an all-powerful ever-present loving deity who, based on your theology, only cares for “good christians” and everyone else is roast, falls into the same problem of what created the creator. What created the creator of that creator. you’ve basically done same insane logic move by asserting an all powerful being just wished itself into existence of nothing from nothing. But, it’s not atheists, agnostics, or seculars who are asserting we came from nothing. Big bang cosmology is our model based on observation. that observation doesn’t what banged, how it banged, and/or what preceded it, and for all intensive purposes, gravity is enough of a force to set it all in motion and there is no evidence that supernatural is even a factor in all of physics.

        And, here’s what’s clearly wrong with your assertion and thinking about the cambrian explosion, and if you had any understanding geology, you’d know this. Pre-cambrian is any period prior to the Cambrian era. I’ll while you google image search “geologic time periods….” Are you back yet?

        From the first stromatolite fossils (you might want to look that up too since they date back to 3.4billion years and are some of the earliest forms of life) to the cambrian is period of 2,860,000,000 years. So it’s nt just some punctuated event. there’s a clear line from early eukaryotes, prokaryotes, to animals with vertebrae, to those with wings. Oh, the evolution of the eye is known. you might want to google image search that for 6th grade illustrations of that process.

        Unless your microwave and MRI tests, along with all the technology you’re using to date is powered by magical pixie dust, you might want to actually do some real research outside of the Answers in Genesis Ken Ham fanclub and look up any page on radiometric dating since we don’t only use carbon to determine the age of things. But carry on sharing that because it lets every person know immediately that you have no idea what you’re talking about

        Here ya go: this was discovered in 2013
        http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1112903518/land-life-older-than-we-thought-072213/

        Also, if you’ve been still hiding in that cave of yours, new species are found every year.

        On the nicer side of this conversation, I will share actual testable knowledge that you really should watch in these two short videos.

        Which came first the chicken or the egg?

        There was no first human

        The fact you think a human made wine in an instant based on ancient literary claims from a book who’s authors weren’t even eye witnesses to the man Jesus and who claimed donkeys talked, the population inbred, the plants were put on earth before the sun existed, the earth sits on 4 pillars, and that Jesus would be back before the end of the apostles lifetime, and insane stuff life “you can bear no fruits” w/o Jesus, I’m just going to acknowledge that i’m wasting my time arguing with a child who can’t separate fact from fiction.

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